'Simply Julia' author and podcaster Julia Turshen talks about cozy just-egg noodles and not-so-cozy diet culture - and, we hear some of YOUR most comfy, feel-good recipes.
Referenced in this episode:
Genius-Hunter Extra-Credit:
Special thanks to listeners Cara and Momina (@mominaeats) for sharing your stories!
If you have a genius recipe that you'd like to share, email me at genius@food52.com.
Kristen Miglore (voiceover): Hi, I'm Kristen Miglore, a lifelong genius hunter. For almost a decade, I've been unearthing the recipes that have changed the way we cook. Now on The Genius Recipe Tapes, we go behind the scenes with the geniuses themselves, and we get to hear from you. This week I'm talking with Julia Turshen, cookbook author and champion of doable feel-good food, about her brand new book, Simply Julia.
This interview is a rare moment to hear more about Julia from Julia because she’s usually busy lifting up others’ work. From her podcast, Keep Calm and Cook On, to her volunteer work with organizations like Angel Food East that delivers fresh meals to people who are homebound in her community. So in the Genius Recipes column and video on Food52 today, you'll get to see how to make Julia’s Golden Chicken Broth with Real Egg Noodles from Simply Julia, which are delicate ribbons that look like homemade pasta but are truly as easy as making scrambled eggs. Because that's precisely what the noodles are. It's how Julia’s grandmother made noodles during Passover when leavened foods are forbidden in the Jewish faith. And although Julia never met her grandmother or tasted these noodles, when her wife, Grace, was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes, they were searching for low carbohydrate foods as one way to manage her illness. Julia remembered noodles that her grandmother used to make. Although Julia suggests many riffs in the book, she especially likes to serve her grandmother's noodles, bobbing in a comforting bowl of homemade chicken broth that takes only time but not effort. And I was able to make both easily with a toddler scampering nearby. So you can too. The book is full of 110 easy recipes for healthy comfort foods recipes that are cookable, delicious, fun. We'll hear about some of those in the second half of the episode. But on the other hand, it's also a radical redefining of the healthy cookbook. Let's start there.
Julia Turshen: The book is called Simply Julia, and the subtitle is 110 Easy Recipes for Healthy Comfort Food. In terms of the title, my mom has been suggesting to me for years that I do a book called Simply Julia, and I wondered what does that title mean? My mom felt like it was just the feeling. That has been on a mental post-it in my brain for a long time. And I went into this book not knowing what I wanted the title to be, which is rare for me. That's usually the first thing I think of her book, which I know that's unusual, but that's how it's been for me. My book titles have usually given me a sense of organizing the book and its central theme. And I didn't have that with this book. I knew from the beginning I wanted just to write the most practical book I've ever written. I wanted to share the most straightforward, easiest recipes. I wanted these recipes to feel like healthy comfort food, which calls to the subtitle. So those three words–easy, healthy, comfort–are essential to me. And I spent the entire book trying to figure out what those words mean through all these different recipes and essays. It’s been a joy to figure it out and to keep figuring it out. I wouldn't say I have it all figured out by any means.
I think I am speaking vaguely right now. I am so happy to have written a healthy cookbook that is not about weight loss, which doesn't promote weight loss or encourage it. This book is a healthy cookbook with zero to do with restrictions of any kind, any sort of deprivation, and It's not about putting limitations on foods. It's about having a healthy relationship with food. And healthy relationship to me means happiness and positivity. It means food that makes you feel good. And that comes from a deeply personal place because I haven't always had that. While I've always had an incredibly positive relationship with cooking, I haven't always had an equally positive relationship with eating the food I love to cook. Consuming food has been pretty fraught, and I've had many pretty intense body image issues. I know I’m not alone, so I wanted to be honest about that in this book. And take a firm stance about what healthy means to me and to distinguish it from skinny. Those words get confused with each other a lot in a way that is just inaccurate.
Kristen: It all makes so much sense, and it all is so good to be thinking about two because we throw around these words a lot in food media, and it's nice to take a step back and examine them. Is that something that you always had in mind for this book?
Julia: I knew all along I wanted to write these recipes for healthy comfort food. The title came from my mom, and the subtitle came from my wife, Grace. I often have a hard time describing what kind of food I cook because I cook food from many different places, and so many other memories inform me. I've had a hard time saying, do I cook American food? What even is that?
As you can tell by the way I answer all of your questions, I tend to go on and on, and I don't know how to get to the question’s kernel. One day, I talked to my wife about not knowing how to describe the food in the book. Grace said, “Julia, you cook healthy comfort food. That's what it is."
I knew I wanted the recipes to be that because that is what I cook at home. This is a book of home cooking recipes from my kitchen to other people's home kitchens. But I think in terms of me taking a stance on anything, that came a little bit later. As I was making the recipes, I was deciding if something was healthy, and that lead to me questioning what healthy even means. I had numerous conversations with my wife and my therapist about this. “Am I just confusing this with skinny as I have all along?” “What does healthy mean to me?” That was a process that happened as I was making the book, and it continues. Publishing the book doesn’t mean that I have it all figured out. I'm just happy to be figuring it out, and I'm so glad to be supported while being honest. I am very, very grateful for that.
Kristen: The reason I ask and why I was curious about it is that it all comes together so beautifully, and it all feels very intentional and thoughtful. I love that you discuss where your book will be in bookstores and the meaning behind it. It was so interesting to me because I've been at Food52 for 11 years now. I've always been steeped in the Food52 ethos of talking about diets and healthfulness, often to avoid it. We're just not going to talk about counting calories or specific weight loss-focused diet trends. We’re going to talk about things like enjoying everything in moderation, even moderation, and all those kinds of Julia Child-style tropes about being on a different path of thinking about how we eat. But I thought it was so interesting that you didn’t sidestep it. You went right into the market of healthy cooking to try to redefine it.
Julia: That's interesting to hear your perspective. It makes me more curious about the whole thing and where the book sits on the shelf, and what category the book is in in online searches. Books, like so many things in life, many people who produce them create many labels to organize them. Could my cookbook sit in the general interest cooking category? Yes. Could it sit on the healthy cooking shelf? Yes. Could it even sit in the cooking memoir section? Maybe! It is all of these things at the same time.
This underscores why I wanted to use the word healthy in the subtitle. I want it to be on a shelf with books that it doesn't look like to show that it can look like this. I hope the healthy cooking category continues to fill with books representing people living in different types and sizes of bodies continue to be published.
In terms of me not sidestepping the healthy perspective in the way you're talking about, perhaps that is because I'm a single person and not a company. I get to be explicit about what I stand for because I'm just speaking for myself, not on behalf of a brand. I don't think either is good or bad; it’s just interesting to distinguish that.
I hope more people continue to feel brave to talk about these topics because it is so important to talk about. Mainly to create space for people to connect around these things safely because I know from having my book out only a couple of weeks how many just meaningful conversations I've had with people on this topic. And we just dove right into it here. I find myself talking about my cookbook and not talking about any of the recipes, which is interesting. Fine by me!
Kristen: People are ready to talk about it. It also made me wonder if the way we talk about these things is more subtle and insidious than I realized. In a recent interview, you mentioned that you were a preacher of diet culture in the past and that that struck me. Wow, I would have never looked at any of your work and thought that you were espousing a particular type of diet culture!
Julia: Diet culture is everywhere, and I think it's over-aggressive in certain places and conversations and from certain businesses and institutions. I also think it is subtle and insidious in other areas like you're referring to. I am curious about those more indirect places because I think those places are where things seep in ways we don't realize.
Cookbooks are a fantastic example because cookbooks are places where we put our thoughts and ideas and like our legacies and like culture. And we can normalize things in cookbooks because they seep in. I think so much about what it's meant to write so openly about my marriage in my books. My books are about home cooking, so for me, that is me cooking for my wife and myself at home. It has also been this stellar way to normalize our same-sex marriage. And I know that not just as the author, but I hear it from my readers. I'm in this ongoing conversation with the people who cook for my books, and I cherish those conversations, and they're so important to me. Many of them are with other gay women, which has been a compelling experience for me.
And I feel something similar right now putting out Simply Julia around diet culture and being honest and open about it. One of the dangerous things that diet culture makes people feel very alone. It isolated me. Talking about it openly and feeling less alone is a valuable way to push back against it. It happens in cookbooks, and it occurs in food media, this obsession with food. We have behaviors that can be toxic, myself included. I think it comes through in obvious and subtle ways—for example, talking about gluten-free without naming people living with Celiac Disease. Diet culture assumes that people should eat specific foods because it’s healthier when there are no allergies involved. Why should we be eating it? Are you allergic? I'm not saying it's wrong to eat anything gluten-free, but I like thinking about how we use these labels. Assuming something is better or worse is very toxic. I think the best example is the term clean eating. What, is the rest dirty? What does that mean? What do we mean when we say these things? Yes, I clean my produce before cooking. It is essential to have clarity in what we’re saying and why we’re saying it.
Kristen (voiceover): Hey, it's Kristen. If you're enjoying this conversation with Julia, head over to The Genius Recipe Tapes and hit subscribe so you don't miss out on other discussions like this. After the break, Julia and I will talk about the recipes that people have been cooking the most from simply Julia so far. Stay tuned.
Kristen: Would you like to talk about any of the recipes? I would love to hear about them.
Julia: We're talking about important stuff. I'm so grateful to talk about it, and it's like a serious conversation, as it should be. And I also keep forgetting that this cookbook is also entertaining. The recipes are playful and joyous. So, yes, I would love to talk about recipes. The more I reflect on my definition of healthy food, and healthy food must be fun. Healthy is eating joyfully and cooking things that have a sense of lightness. Not about any ingredients, but that sense of light, life, joy. So, yes. Let us talk about food.
Kristen: Your conversation with Dorie Greenspan stuck with me. There is a quote from that conversation that I need to put on my wall. Dorie said, “You can't be healthy if you're not happy.” That stuck, especially as we are all thinking about health in so many different ways—mental health, emotional health, and physical health. So getting happy and joyful recipes and cooking is so essential in building a healthy life. What are some of the recipes that people have been responding to since the book has come out?
Julia: The recipes I'm seeing on social media that are getting shared the most and aren’t necessarily the ones I would have predicted. It is always interesting how that happens.
So one of the things that I see coming up all the time is the Everything Bagel Hand Pies in the Breakfast chapter. It’s essentially this incredibly easy dough to make. My recipe uses half whole wheat flour and half all-purpose flour. I picked that mix not for fiber but because I like how they look a bit browner and have a nuttier flavor, and if I used all whole wheat flour, they would be too tough. The dough recipe is based on those two-ingredient doughs that are more than two ingredients. You mix the flour with yogurt, and you roll it out. It's like a super forgiving dough, a great thing to start with, especially if you are nervous about doughs. You make the dough, divide it into four, roll out four circles and fill them with scrambled eggs and scallions. My love of scallion cream cheese bagels inspired the flavor pairing. But you can fill them with anything you want, like bacon, egg, and cheese, roasted vegetables, whatever you want. Guess what? You’re making a hot pocket! Fold the circle over to make a half-moon, brush the top with a little more egg, add Everything Bagel seasoning and bake them. They are so adorable and hand-held, but you also get the satisfaction of making this homemade baked good that is super simple. There is no resting the dough; you can make them all at once, you can freeze them, they are very versatile and fun!
Another popular one is the kale and mushroom pot pie. I feel like it’s been popping up a lot, which makes me happy because it is so good. It is a vegetarian pop pie that is genuinely satisfying. You roast off a sheet pan of mushrooms, which, in my view, is the best way to cook mushrooms. You can cook a bunch of mushrooms at once, and they will get brown without having to do batches on the stovetop. You mix the mushrooms with blanched kale and carrots. And you can use frozen kale too. Instead of making a bechamel and using more pots and pans and bringing in more stress, you just mix those vegetables with sour cream and Boursin cheese. Boursin cheese is the best ingredient because it already has garlic and herbs in it. It is so good. I wanted this book to be practical, and to consider when people are looking for a recipe to make, what makes them turn the page? What makes them skip a recipe? People are often scared to make pie dough, and they're scared of rolling it out and crimping it. So I just took both those things out of the equation, and I call for a sheet of puff pastry. Another worry is what are you going to do with the extra puff pastry when you cut it into a circle to fit your skillet? So I suggest you cut the whole sheet into these little triangles and shingle them on top of the pie and bake it. Not only does it look cool, but it’s also easy. I love when making a recipe easier makes it better. I love when that happens.
Kristen: I think this topic is so important. I'm in a unique period in my life where I have very little time to dedicate to actively being engaged in cooking. Whether it's something I can cook it all fast or something I can start and then leave alone for a while, those are the two things I can do. So the fact that you're thinking about these things so seriously is helping so many home cooks.
Julia: I appreciate hearing that. I think this is the position you're in because you have a little one, right?
Kristen: I have one daughter; she’s almost two years old.
Julia: Wow, time flies! I don’t have children, I have dogs, but some of my closest friends and family have little kids. I have talked to so many parents trying to cook while holding a baby in one arm. That's why there's a handful of recipes in this book that don't require chopping. I wrote those recipes with these friends in mind. One cookbook can't be for everyone, but I tried to include as many of those thoughts in my recipe writing as possible. I want to create work that is inviting and welcome. That's my goal.
Kristen (voiceover): And now, here is more comfort food inspiration from our community.
Listener Cara Vaccaro: Hey, I'm Cara, and I work at Food 52 as an Assistant Manager on the Email team. After moving back to my parents during the pandemic, I struggled with keeping up the vegetarian lifestyle. It can be super isolating to make your meals, especially when everyone's eating your favorite Buffalo wings. But I've swapped in temp, and I've got the whole fam onboard. Dare I say they're better than chicken wings. It's got a more complex flavor that's kind of nutty. It's fermented, so it's healthy for you because it's good for the gut. And I make them weekly now, at my parents' request.
Listener Momina: Hi everyone, this is Momina from Momina Eats, a food lover from Pakistan. And my ultimate comfort food has to be dal chawal. Yellow and orange lentils are slow-cooked with a lot of aromatic herbs and spices and then served over a bed of white boiled rice. Along with a ton of condiments like pickles, chutney, raita, salad, and especially some variety of kebabs. This bowl of yumminess is my ultimate way to unwind after a long tiring day. A perfect pairing with a night of Netflix. I swear it is a hug in a bowl!
Kristen: (voiceover): Thanks for listening. Our show was put together by Coral Lee, with support from Emily Hanhan. If you have a Genius Recipe, and they don't all have to involve eggs doing tricks. Still, it never hurts. I would always love to hear from you at genius@food52.com. And if you like the The Genius Recipe Tapes, do take a second to rate, review, and subscribe, if you haven't already. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon.