British TV chef, author, and GBBO winner Nadiya Hussain joins Kristen to talk raging against the machine (aka not peeling your kiwis), and her standout recipes from forthcoming 'Nadiya Bakes.'
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Special thanks to listeners Anita and Amy. Have a genius recipe you'd like to share? Tell me all about it at genius@food52.com.
Kristen Miglore (voiceover): Hi, I'm Kristen Miglore, a lifelong genius hunter. For a decade, I've been unearthing the recipes that have changed the way we cook. Now on The Genius Recipe Tapes, we go behind the scenes with the geniuses themselves, and we get to hear from you. I enjoyed talking with Nadiya Hussain, TV star, novel and cookbook author, and mom to three in today’s episode. And she also won season six of a particular quirky British baking competition; you know the one. She has a new book coming out in the US in a couple of weeks, Nadiya Bakes. Toward the end of the episode, we will talk to her about her favorite genius-sounding recipes from it. But I haven't stopped thinking about this salad recipe of hers that features, get ready for it, kiwi; the whole kiwi.
Nadiya Hussain: I had only recently discovered a few years ago that you could eat a kiwi with the skin on, and I was like, what? How is that even possible? Because the texture of a kiwi is unique. I'm not sure if the kiwi exterior is hairy or if it wants to be a coconut. It feels like the thing you would use to scour your pants. For me, that was like what? I had no idea you could eat the peel. And I found out on Instagram through somebody that I follow that they eat the peel, and I thought, wow!
Kristen: I just want to break in and say I asked Nadiya later who this literal influencer was, who encouraged her to try kiwi skin for the first time. And it was Greg Rutherford, the Olympic long jumper. So you can follow him for more produce secrets and weightlifting content.
Nadiya: I've got to say it was the weirdest, most magical thing I've ever tried because your mind expects you to hate it. Your mind already decided that this is the way it's going to feel, and this is the way it's going to taste. Well, in all fairness, it ticked all of those boxes, and I was like, oh my goodness, this is as weird as I imagined it would be. But it is still delicious, and eating the exterior of a kiwi doesn't take away from the kiwi. If anything, it saves you a bit of time, because can I just say kiwis are not the most fun thing in the world to peel. And they're also not as fun to scoop out; they've made many a mess in our house. They're not fun all the time. Not needing to peel kiwis sounded terrific! So now my kids take kiwi to school, and they munch it up. And again, many heads turn, but they are also educating their peers.
Kristen: So I love this notion that you can overcome an aversion to food, not just because you were wrong about it, but even because you were right and you like that thing that you were so scared of in the first place. That was my experience, too, with biting into a kiwi for the first time. But it's this salad that made me a true believer.
Nadiya: Then there comes that weird world of why am I putting this thing in a salad with oil and Tahini and feta. When somebody tells me that a specific ingredient can only be used a certain way, that is a challenge. I don't like it when I get told that's how you should be eating it. Well, who decided that that's how we should eat it? Indeed somebody else can choose differently. And I think, and I think that's where I love writing recipes just like this, is that just because we've been told something has to be eaten a certain way. It doesn't mean that that's precisely how it should always be, and somebody has to make that leap to try something different. And granted a lot of recipes like this that I write, people are unsure. What's lovely about the whole thing is that their curiosity and need to prove me wrong is wholesome. It is great because they don't prove me wrong. They often prove me correct, and that for me is the most enjoyable bit.
Kristen: So I realized that for those of you who can’t stand peach fuzz, this might be sending your spidey senses into overdrive. Do not fret; Nadiya overcame that too.
Nadiya: I used to be a bit like that actually; I used to dislike the fuzzy texture of a peach. My Dad was big on fruit. Whenever he said that he was getting me a treat, it would be a box of fruit, which he clearly didn't understand what treat meant. And so I used to hate that feeling of it. When you have to bite through that fuzzy exterior, it feels like you're chewing off the leg of your teddy bear, which isn't a fun sensation. I remember saying I don't want to eat it; I don't like the fuzzy bits on the outside. My dad just washed it. It's weird when you take something like a kiwi or a peach and run it under some water; it takes away that fuzzy exterior. And so that's what I do with kiwis with peaches, I just run them under some water, and it doesn't feel like a wet towel, just a dry towel.
Kristen: I was thinking that actually about your salad, I had that same reaction that you did of thinking I was not going to like it and then biting in and being surprised and delighted by it. Having the kiwi skin coated in the dressing made it even more palatable because it smoothed down the hairs, like a pomade or a styling gel.
Nadiya: Yes! It's very much like wetting a kiwi or washing it under some water or washing a peach underwater. It's the same once it's covered in a dressing. Also, you have all of those other textures going on in the actual salad, so you don’t notice that the kiwi has the skin. But you've got the goodness of the fiber and nutrients that you would typically chuck in the bin.
Kristen: Just to confirm, it's not just that you can eat the skin, and you should eat the skin. It's that eating kiwi this way in a salad full of so many textures and flavors it wouldn't be nearly as good without the crunchy little pop of the skin. It would be sort of like eating guacamole without the chip. Now it's time to hear about the actual test, though. I wanted to know if Nadiya's three kids were resistant to this idea or if they were all in like her.
Nadiya: Oh no, they were all in. My little girl was a bit more one foot through the door on the other foot safely on the other side. So she is naturally quite cautious. She is, by nature, careful and risk-averse. But when she watched us do it, she decided to give it a go, and we haven't looked back since. They always eat kiwi with the skin; they will know no different. Their children will grow up thinking that you eat kiwi with the skin on, and maybe it'll be normal one day.
Kristen: if you're game to try but want a gentler entryway into the world of eating kiwi skins, you can try just rubbing it gently with a clean damp towel or scrubbing it with a vegetable brush, or even scraping it lightly with a spoon. But I recommend just going for it, and if you're feeling less adventurous, give it a quick rinse and take a bite just like you would an apple. But Nadiya has a few more ideas beyond that.
Nadiya: Oh gosh! I love making ice lollies out of them. Kiwi is much like grapes and blueberries–when they're frozen, they take on a very sorbet-like texture. So what I like to do is pop a stick in them and then pop them in the freezer on days like this when it's warm. Then the kids are like eating little kiwi sorbets with the skin on.
Kristen: That’s amazing. Wow. Okay, I'm doing that for my daughter,
Nadiya: But when they were little, I used to slice them up, pop them on a tray, and then they would use their hands to eat little bits of kiwi. But now that they're bigger, I don't even put the sticks in anymore. They just nibble on these frozen kiwis! It is delicious. They take on this gorgeous sorbet texture, and then you've got the pop of the tiny seeds inside as well, so great texture.
Kristen: So I did freeze kiwis a couple of different ways, and my two-year-old daughter was into them. We took a little video of the encounter.
Look at this! What the heck is this? What's that?
At first, Mari only wanted the frozen slices. And then she just started licking the skin off of the whole one. So it just goes to show how powerful perception is. She ate it without questioning because she's new enough to the world that she didn't know any different. Okay, now if we don't have to peel a kiwi, what other fruits and vegetables could we maximize? Nadiya was full of ideas.
Nadiya: So I tend not to appeal my carrots because I just think, what's the point? It just needs to be washed. I don't know why we're peeling carrots. It doesn't even make sense to me. When you peel a carrot, you get that smooth exterior, and I like when you get that rough, uneven texture exterior of a carrot that I enjoy. So I don't peel carrots. Suppose I don't have to, then I won't peel a potato. I'm trying to think what else. I don't peel pretty much don't peel anything if I don't have to.
Kristen: I'm with you. I avoid it at all costs—especially tomatoes.
Nadiya: When a recipe needs a smooth tomato. I just grate the tomato. You grate only the interior, and the exterior is left over. So you don't have to even think about worrying about dipping it in water and peeling it. So you just grate the whole thing. And then you've got note then you've got a smooth tomato paste,
Kristen (voiceover): Hey, it's Kristen. If you enjoy this conversation with Nadiya as much as I did, don't worry, she will be back right after the break. In the meantime, you can head over to The Genius Recipe Tapes and hit subscribe, so you don't miss out on other stories like this one. Like my recent conversation with Ruthie Rogers, the co-founder of the River Cafe in London, about the origins of their legendary flamingo pink sorbet. Which uses, oh yes, a whole blitzed up lemon. Which was the very first genius recipe that I ever wrote about ten years ago. In the second half of this episode, Nadiya and I will discuss a time-saving salad dressing trick. And another magic ingredient that she loves: intentionally melted ice cream. Not just in what I would have called ice cream soup as a kid, but as a clever shortcut. Stay right there; you won't want to miss it.
When I first learned more about cooking, it felt like there were many ways to get salads wrong. I needed to know how to emulsify vinaigrettes, so I needed to be careful not to underdress or overdress. And that I had to be ready to serve it immediately, or it would turn into a wilted mess. This is no way to live. So at a certain point, I started to find joy in just refusing to emulsify. And now, with another brilliant time-saving trick, Nadiya just permitted me to be even more rebellious.
Nadiya: What I tend to do is when I make a dressing for a salad, often when it's a big salad because I'm having people around. I'm always short of time, so I want to do things quickly. And often, refrigerator space is the bare minimum, so how can I do this quickly? So I love to make the dressing at the base of the bowl for all salads. If you dress your salad before it's time to eat, everything gets soggy and wilted, and it loses its crisp freshness. The reason why I always make my salad dressings at the bottom of the bowl is that when I add the contents of the salad on top of the dressing, I don't mix it in, I just pop it in the fridge, and when it's ready to eat, then I'll stir everything through. Then you retain the crisp freshness of the salad contents, but it's all dressed well, and you will have saved on your washing up. It’s all about saving on the washing up,
Kristen: Wow. And so you would do that even with a leafy green salad too?
Nadiya: Absolutely. Even with the leafy green salad. Especially if I'm doing a salad for the kids, for instance, if I'm doing a salad for their lunch, I always pop the dressing in the bottom of the salad bowl, and then when they're ready to eat with all the salad already on top, they just give it a good shake and then their salad is dressed.
Kristen: This was fascinating. I figured that the kiwi salad was a perfect contender for Nadiya's one bowl dressing trick. Even if you ended up with extra dressing, not only because of my whole kiwi fuzz pomade theory, but also kiwis and cucumbers are intense things. They are not going to wilt or let a dressing dominate them. But I wouldn't have thought to do it with fragile lettuce leaves, which must be one last salad rule that I clung to. So I asked Nadiya how we can get away with not babying our green salads.
Nadiya: I think it's trial and error more than anything else. I know lots of people who order salads, and they will say, can I have the dressing on the side. So it's all trial and error. How much you like, how little you like. You make as much or as little dressing as you want in the base of your bowl. Or don't make the dressing at all; make the dressing in a separate bowl, in a jar, whatever suits you. And the whole point of sharing these recipes is that you get to take something that I've made and make it your own, and that's important. I'm not strict about this, well this is my recipe, and this is precisely how you should do it. I'm just giving you ideas. I'm inspiring you and giving you the confidence to know that you can have something delicious. The rest is up to you. So if you don't like lots of dressing, absolutely reduce the amount of dressing you have or increase the amount of salad contents, a bit of a balance.
Kristen: I think it also helps that this particular dressing is so good that you might just want to drink it too.
Nadiya: Yes, it is terrific, it's very delicious, and it works so well with the kiwi and the feta, it just works everything, there's a little bit of everything.
Kristen: So your kids like the salad too?
Nadiya: They love it; they absolutely love it. With a salad like this, you’re hitting all those flavor notes, the sweet, the sour, the sharp, the acidity, a bit of crunch. Once you've hit all of those notes in a salad, it's hard not to like it. I'll be honest; I don't love a salad. Salad can become such an afterthought. When I make a salad, it's with all the bells and whistles. It has to be the best salad you've ever eaten in your life. So for me, this is that salad. It has a little bit of everything, a little bit of every flavor profile, but also it's got the element of fun because we've got kiwi in there. But anyone who's never had a kiwi in a savory salad, this is entirely new for them. And my kids love it. My kids love that there are no rules in our kitchen. When I get asked that question, I think many people persist and keep at it. But the truth is, children and all people lead by example, if they see you're enjoying something, then they naturally will go for whatever you like. And it's so easy for us just to say, well, this is good for you while we chomp away. The kids need to see eating, and I'm a firm believer in leading by example. One of my children used to be a fussy eater, and I used to get stressed about the whole thing. I used to say, “You've got to eat it, you've got to finish this, you've got to try this.” But the truth is, that never worked. And it was the moment I backed away and allowed him just to explore and watch that we enjoy it and that we eat and it's not killing us. He eventually just took to it now. I can't stop him now. So I think patience is the key, and people, children, we all need examples to be led. And I think if you enjoy something, your children do eventually enjoy it; you just have to have patience.
Kristen: So about Nadiya's latest book, Nadiya bakes. It is full of ideas that will not take all that much patience for you or your family to adopt. A couple that immediately grabbed me as genius were a blueberry lavender scone pizza and a pumpkin pie, that's a carrot tart. Here is Nadiya on her favorite recipe, if she had to pick a favorite.
Nadiya: Well, if I was going to pick out a few and there are so many, it's like picking your favorite child, which is impossible. One of my favorite recipes in the book has to be the croissant bread pudding made of defrosted ice cream. With a bread and butter pudding, you would typically have a custard that you make from scratch. But what I love about this recipe is that actually what you're doing is you're taking a, you're taking an ice cream which is essentially a custard base that's been frozen and going backward. So you're taking the frozen custard, and then you're reversing the process–defrosting it and then adding it to your bread and butter pudding. For me, it is one of my favorite recipes because it's quick, simple, easy, perfect for a novice baker, and gives you confidence in the kitchen. You get something gorgeous and delicious at the end of it, and it feels like magic. So that has to be one of my favorite recipes.
Kristen: Now, here are some of our listeners’ magical uses for fruit peels.
Listener Anita: Hi, this is Anita from Anita’s Yogurt in Brooklyn. My favorite way to use fruit peels is to slice a lemon, freeze the slices whole, and throw a slice of frozen lemon into my smoothie. With the peel, the pith, everything but the seeds. And the first time I tried it, I was so shocked that it was not bitter at all. It had so much flavor and sharpness; it was the perfect note in a smoothie. Now I can’t live without it.
Listener Amy: My name is Amy, and I am a producer over at Food52. When I first heard Nadiya talk about eating kiwi skins, my world was turned upside down. Only because I’ve been eating kiwis without the skin my whole life! My dad taught me to cut them in half and scoop them out with a spoon. I never kn ew there was another way to eat them. I was so eager to try it and introduce kiwis to my one-year-old son. He had never had a kiwi before. And just as I expected, since he didn’t know any better, he ate it right up, skin and all.
Kristen (voiceover): Thanks for listening. My thanks to Nadiya Hussain, author of many cookbooks and host of many cooking shows. All of which inspires us to have more fun and make our own rules. Most recently, in Nadiya Bakes, which is out in the US on July 27.
Our show was put together by Coral Lee, with support from Emily Hanhan and Amy Shuster. If you have a Genius Recipe to share that surprised you and changed the way you cook, I would always love to hear from you at genius@food52.com. And if you like The Genius Recipe Tapes and want more of our unapologetic cooking nerdery, take a second to rate us, leave a review, and subscribe if you haven't already. All of it helps! Talk to you soon.